A failure of leadership for Weinstein, Borden and Columbi.

Do you have information on votes by District?

Yes, thank you Haddonfield residents for restoring my faith.

If you're reading this right now, we're still chatting about the results - join us at http://haddon.patch.com/articles/bancroft-referendum-live-chat

its going to be fun tomorrow morning driving past all those homes on Washington Avenue with all their in your face green signs looking absolutely crestfallen.

Thank you, thank you, thank you Brian Kelly.

The process worked. While I proudly displayed my green sign and voted yes, our democratic system of representation of all worked and I fully, if not sadly, stand by the decision of the voters. It's one of many things I'm proud of for my hometown of 50 some years. Unfortunately there will be those who know not the meaning of respectful disagreement and choose a lesser, more distasteful way of expressing their opinion. Feel free to drive down Grove St as well for you'll not see a crestfallen face yet one of humble respect for the process.

You are a real class act Jeremiah.

Any thoughts on how Haddonfield is going to solve the low income housing requirement that they haven't been able to comply with? Next, regionalization of your schools. Too small for the state. Your kids will be sent to Pennsauken. Not very smart on your part Haddonfield

Finally freedom prevails over tyranny. I never thought I'd see a vote for less spending in NJ! To address some of the previous posts, this country is supposed to be a constitutional republic not a mob-ocracy. I hope the Mt. Laurel 2 decision is challenged in federal court as it is blatant judicial activism and unconstitutional. The government shouldn't be involved in education to begin with. If you decide to have kids, then I don't think you should expect other people to pay for them. Bishop Eustace is a very good private school located in Pennsauken. What is not smart is borrowing money to spend on government boondoggles. I'm deeply disappointed that over 2000 well educated and well meaning people who probably believe that stealing is immoral also believe that voting for the government to steal on your behalf somehow makes theft moral. Unfortunately, I don't think we've heard the last word on Bancroft.

Joanne, the referendum called for setting aside land for 10 units of low income housing. Once the land was aquired for "redevelopment" I have no doubt that pressure for even more units would be exerted. It's the reason I voted no.

There are no winners in this. Our commissioners and BOE spent the last 10 years and thousands and thousands of dollars in professional fees to come up with a plan that showed a ball field and a parking lot. What in the world were they doing with all that time and money?

Nice press release Bancroft. Aren't they really saying 'You voted no, so here is what you get?'. Why take the time and effort to release ANYTHING last evening? Why not wait? Unless, of course, they wanted to inflame the situation or prove a point. I just don't understand what they are trying to accomplish with this statement.

PJ above says "A failure of leadership for Weinstein, Borden and Columbi". We can disagree on that statement but where was Kasko in all of this? Why was he left out of your statement? Did he voice his opinion in all of this? Did he lead either way? Please educate me.

I don't care what anyone says - this is a sad day for Haddonfield, and I believe the coming years will bear that out. The size and condition of the high school is a joke for a town like this that prides itself on "excellence". Go look at other high schools in any number of towns in this area- the disparity is glaringly obvious. A missed opportunity just like the library site almost 60 years ago.

Unfortunately, this is not something we as a community can be proud of and history will not reflect well upon the wisdom and shortsightedness of this decision.

Whether you won or lost yesterday, it was democracy in action. An historic turnout. A good lesson for the kids, many of whom participated in doorhangers, flyer drops, etc. The sign issues and rhetoric aside. A hard fight on both sides. Perhaps a more mutually acceptable solution to what both sides see as their respective concerns will come out of it.

Listen, Mike McCready, don't be disingenous - you know darn well I wasn't being "sarcastic" - and the high school is about the last subject I would be sarcastic about - I respectfully disagree that academic excellence is the only thing that matters. I have a daughter who will be entering the school in less than three years - I am aware of, and appreciative of the the schools' high ranking academically - what parent wouldn't be? However, the physical condition of the school, and, yes, the size of its grounds do mean something and make an impression on most, if they're honest.

Bancroft officials released a statement.... "We are excited to begin the process of modernizing our campus..." said Toni Pergoin.

What an arrogant and disgusting statement for the CEO to make. Bancroft was only a willing seller, if and only if, Haddonfield was going to pay twice the assessed value of the property. Baloney!
To Bancroft, I presume that you won’t wonder why Haddonfield does not want your kind in our town anymore. Thanks for not only selling us short but causing a great divide in this lovely community. The real loser is Bancroft. Haddonfield will still be the great community it has always been because regardless of how the community voted, we all fought for the town we love so dearly!

Let Bancroft donate the land for more parking and a new field at no cost to the tax payer and have them pay a pilot program of taxes for their new development to expand their campus. Everyone wins at no cost to the tax payers .The BOE and 3 Commissioners can not support Radnor field maintenance and over head .The Purchase of Bancroft was insanity no budget or plan just a field and parking which Bancroft or Private Developer could donate for free for a more generous zoning plan at no cost to the tax payers. Government are the worst when it comes to business development they are not qualified and the project would be all union wages which would raise the cost 3 - 10 times more for the services to complete the project. More bonds and taxes to complete the over priced land project which was not disclosed. Borden saying we lost the $3.5 million is so wrong the cost was too high in the 1st place so the commissioners should stop trying to be developers which they are not qualified .Tish just wants a new library to be built which is not necessary today. Tax and spend by government policies at all levels of government has generated so much debt we will never be able to pay the local and state and USA debt off.

Marie, even if the referendum went through, your daughter would not see any benefit from it in 3 years or 10. It would of taken MANY years for anything to happen on that Bancroft property. The town would of been dealing with underground tanks, abstestos, lead paint, etc...

Congratulations Democracy! Consolations to Haddonfield's future!
in 2005 when Bancroft announced that it would sell it's property about 200 people attended a packed meeting in Boro Hall, most brimming with enthusiasm for this parcel as part of Haddonfield's public space.
The loss appears as much a result of prior unrestrained spending, poor school and road maintenance, fear of COAH mandated development (which will likely be triggered anyway if Bancroft rebuilds), a severely mismanaged planning process, and lack of vision that the community could buy into. While these are contributors to the loss, the root cause was the failure to organize around a vision over the long-run (from 2005 to yesterday) that the whole community could have agreed upon. I'll take my share of the blame for not being more proactive or effective in this regard.
In the short run, should Bancroft re-develop its own campus, Haddonfield must be a proactive partner in planning AND Haddonfield must negotiate a PILOT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) which will help to compensate for the services Bancroft does receive. For those who objected to the development of affordable housing, I'm sorry to say that rebuilding Bancroft's facilities will likely trigger this requirement as well.
Time will tell if this decision was good or bad for our community. I believe we missed a good opportunity. Even if Bancroft were to lower it's selling price now by $4MM that would be offset by the loss of grant money secured.

Wow...are you kidding? Haddonfield being looked at as short sighted and cheap? I hardly think other towns are concerning themselves with our business. Somehow, I don't think the green signs will be replaced with sale signs. I do think some of the red signs may have been replaced with sale signs. Why would you hope Bancroft will build, build, build? Even if the referendum had passed, I wouldn't want a bad outcome so I could say I told you so. I would have hoped everything would work out, even though I thought it was a bad idea. As for Radnor, why not fix it up? When I voted yesterday, and saw the turnout, it made me proud to be a resident of this town.

BTW. This article says that voter turnout was heavy. Perhaps it was heavier than normal but given that 5,000 of 9,400 registered voters didn't find this issue important enough to vote is sad in itself.

If Bancroft modernizes they do not trigger COAH housing Mr Hess is 100 % wrong on that point. Have Bancroft donate the field and parking for the zoning approval just like the private developer would be expected to do for their approvals. Radnor field wad donate by the developer of the Fargo section in the past.Most public land has been donated by Developers so Bancroft can do the same. Result no cost to the tax payers and the high school gets more parking and another field. Fix Up Radnor and the schools and Roads. the commissioners have no right to try and be a developer they are not qualified

Addressed to Bill T the Borough and BOE did not have a solid plan so we should be proud we do not approve the purchase. Bill more taxes and spending just to acquire a field and more parking at what cost The cost was never determined we had to tear down buildings[ at union wage costs] and be responsible for all environmental costs as well .You know the Borough could acquire those two thing [ another field and more parking] at no cost to the borough and tax payers with proper zoning Bill concentrate on those ideas since you are much more qualified than any government official to develop that site.

Tina, Yes I do know what is going on in our state, but no where have I read that any action has been taken or that students from Haddonfield are going to be bused to Pennsauken. Please send the link where you read this. I'm tired of people using scare tactics and making statements without facts.

I voted YES on this issue, but I am not surprised that it failed. One of the reason I believe that this failed has not been mentioned. That is the recent decision to approve the expansion of the Brandywine facility in spite of the objections of many of us. I feel that Brandwine would never have spent $ 1.7 million to purchase this facility and then plan to turn it into a building almost as large as a Walmart , if they were not assured beforehand that they would get the votes needed . This decision angered many voters.
Another reason Bancroft failed is that even some students at the High school couldn't believe that this purchase was being considered while there are so many glaring needs for improvement at the H.S. I would hope though , that there were not that many voting NO who really did so because of the Affordable housing part. It would be very sad if that were the case.
Timing is everything . In spite of my being in favor of this purchase, there seems to be some anger in town at our elected officials. Why were the points of the opposition so clearly made, while no one seemed to take these points one by one and refute them if they were refutable ? Have our elected officials become arrogant ? Perhaps in the next election we'll see some changes there also.

Brandywine is very good development brings a much needed project for our seniors and families in town.The property is in scale with the land and current building a much more modern facility that our seniors deserve. A new tax ratable to a win win for everyone.Did you read the prior posts Bancroft can give the High School a free field and parking in trade for better zoning and pay for some services with a tax pilot look at Bancroft as re developing their own property at a cost that helps Haddonfield to, at no cost to tax payers. Wake up every one Look to add value not taxes.

Thank God “The People” had the common sense and vision to vote down this boondoggle. The Bancroft deal was very similar to the infamous “Seward’s Folly” purchase of the Alaskan territories that was foisted on the American people in a “back room” deal with the Russians in 1867. The following are some of the key arguments against the purchase made by many eminent statesmen in Congress and by the press:

“The people of the country do not want these Russian possessions. If submitted to them they would reject the treaty by a majority of millions. Alaska is an inhospitable, wretched and God-forsaken region worth nothing.”- Orange Ferriss (NY)

“We could have had Alaska for the asking. I have heard it was so stated in the Cabinets of two presidents, provided we would have taken it as a gift.” – B.F. Butler (Mass)

“The acquisition of this inhospitable and barren waste would never add one dollar to the wealth of our country or furnish homes to our people.”- Benjamin Loan (Mo)

“The Purchase Price was small; the annual charges for administration, civil and military, would be yet greater, and continuing.”- Ellis Paxson Oberholtzer

“The whole country exclaimed at once, when it was made known to it, of the ineffable folly, if not the wanton profligacy, of the whole transaction.”- William Moore (PA)

Of course history proved these critics right since the key benefits of the purchase touted by supporters at the time; the potential Annexation of British Columbia, closer ties to Russia and access to the valuable fur trade, never came to be realized since British Columbia joined Canada, Russia proved to be a weak ally, and the fur trade collapsed since most of the fur bearing animals had been hunted to the brink of extinction. Unfortunately, this purchase was not put to a popular vote and the tax payers have been carrying the burden of Alaska ever since.

Stay on point

Has anyone seen Kasko?

The most coherent message that applies to this situation by Mrs. Nogud was the "Back Room" dealing comment.....I think...!

Where was Jeff Kasko in all of this? As for respectfull dialogue, where is the respect for the taxpayers? This town, this county, this state has ripped off the hard working people...the politicians and insiders have absolutely no respect for me....just look at the vendors of this town, county and state....look at their houses, their cars, their private schools they attend....all on the backs of taxpayers....DON'T TALK/LECTURE TO ME ABOUT RESPECT....This vote went down because it didn't pass the smell test....perhaps if the career cronies who occupy Town Hall and the BOE actually focused on long term issues and refrained for at least one year asking us to vote for another school budget "that was only $100" and for "the children", then maybe, just maybe this great opportunity would not have been lost. Instead of these career 'public servants' stopped focusing on their own nest (and that of their friends), this would have passed.

It says a lot about the fact the leaders couldn't seize on a legitimate opportunity because their simply is no trust in what they have to say....

Wipe the slate clean....vote out Kasko and Borden and get an entirely new BOE in.....

Although I usually vote yes on all referendums that increase property taxes for the public good (especially education), I voted no due to the lack of any clear plan beyond a turf field and a parking lot. I agree that a lot of land this size offers a lot of excellent opportunities to benefit multiple town demographics, but despite all the time, money, discussion and excitement surrounding this, the only concrete ideas involved a sports field and a parking lot. Was the proposal purposefully vague? Due to the lack of certainty (or at least some approximation) of what would be built on Bancroft (or Radnor), I think George makes a great point that the Brandywine decision likely factored into many residents' choice. I also agree with the comments about taking care of what you have before grabbing for more, and not pricing out seniors or residents who cannot afford tax increases as easily as others.

Also, given that HMHS consistently ranks first (or in the top) of regional rankings--and even made Newsweek's list of best high schools nationwide--I am genuinely curious as to what parents think their children are currently deprived of. I don't mean this to be snarky; I just think that great education basically centers around a solid curriculum and good teachers, students and parents. Have we become such a nation of McMansions, big screen tvs and buying every next fad that we confuse size and newness with the value of something?

I respect your right to make your point, Joanne, it's just a bit unfortunate that you need to insert the line about you "sending your children to school for an education" - um, do you really think I am not sending mine for the same? Kind of an unjust way to address someone who disagrees with you on something.

have to admit there is some entertainment value in reading all these posts...
maybe it would have been easier to have decided the issue with a "dual at 20 paces" in front of the Indian King?
Still thinking on what I am going to do with my bonus 57 cents a day...?
While disappointing as a long time resident, this really doesn't affect my family...
Those that move here or come back after growing up in Haddonfield are the ones who will pay the ultimate price. Congrats to the winners but other than saving themselves a couple hundred $$'s, I doubt that anyone won anything. Your children and grandchildren will be the ones who will feel the affect of your decisions.
Make sure to sign the "wall of shame" on your way out!

This was a classic example of an insurgent campaign challenging incumbents who had been living in a bubble surrounded by syncopants who confirmed that their views were correct. The Board of Real Estate never came up with a coherent plan for their purchase and somehow did not seem to believe that the voters needed one. They neglected to look at the demographics, forgetting that only 37% of Haddonfield households have children in the schools. That leaves a lot of elderly households where there is concern about rising property taxes in this town. They tried to limit voting by the elderly by scheduling the election in January. They attempted to microtarget voters through the coaches mailing absentee ballot applications to graduated students but it is obvious that this was not effective. Their college student voters did not turn out and vote in significant numbers. But older Haddonfield residents did. Steve Weinstein was so arrogant, dismissive and rude to John Stokes about Radnor Field at the December Board meeting. Well the Radnor area of Districts 8 and 9 did not forget and turned out to vote.

I don't understand the implication that people who voted "No" are being shortsighted or don't care about education. I would argue that the longer view favors us. When my family looked to move we chose Haddonfield due to the lack of a transient nature of it's citizenry. We saw pride and stability and decided this was a community where we wanted to raise kids and stay afterward.

What many people who voted "no" saw was $12.5M for a discretionary expenditure, $28M for BOE infrastructure needs, and countless $M more for borough infrastructure. Add to that the cost of developing the Bancroft sight. Our future? Tax induced transient home ownership resulting in stress on the schools.

If the "Yes" proponents wanted an honest vote they would have spelled out what our BOE and borough improvements were over the next 15 years and ask people if we could afford ALL of them. If that were done then Bancroft would have come in a distant third. Instead many "Yes" proponents would choose to saddle us with discretionary expense then somehow "deal with" much larger future non-discretionary expenses (gym floor anyone?).

Lack of honesty from our leadership and lack of trust in the citizenry in the past to make hard decision is the cause of the rejection. The citizenry has returned the favor by not trusting that our leadership was providing us all information needed to make an informed decision. Sans that, we chose "No" to preserve why we moved here to begin with.

Well put Ted. I have had people say to me why would anyone live in Haddonfield if they don't have children. I too plan on staying when my children complete their schooling here. Many of the yes voters also didn't appear to understand there are many families who live in this town, pay the high taxes and get relatively nothing for this expenditure because they never had and never will have children in the schools.

David Seidell you do understand Coah that rule does not apply to existing development. Bancroft is grandfathered in have been here 128 years. Modernizing your building does effect Coah and expanding their non profit employee base does not apply here..Have you thought about how Haddonfield can have its new field and parking with out paying for it by using proper zoning and having Bancroft stay in Haddonfield ..They have been a great neighbor for many years Haddonfield Talks need to get educated about zoning .Did you know Radnor was donated by the Fargo developer and most land developments have donated School and Open space for years.. Most public money came from Development and Commerce not just tax payers Ger educated and support the new initiative to obtain two items the High School wants by just zoning at no increase tax cost .Replace the Commissioners and Planning Board and zoning Board menber who do not understand the laws of zoning .Hire a New attorney for the Township Mario obviouly and Sharon M c Collugh is not educated on these matters

Dave you do not understand Coah rules my draft was wrong

"effect" or "affect" Doctor?

I'm all jelly! How do we change the zoning to get er done? Is that really legal to just change the zoning on an existing land owner?

Looks like someone is typing too fast on a iphone

Last comment not worth posting anymore good bye

pending approval what happened to other posts

good bye

Enough of the heavy stuff...
have a laugh on me....
very appropriate video given the deficit discussions...
enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Li0no7O9zmE

Get educated

I thought you left

That's right. When logic and reason don't support your view, or when someone wants more details on what you are proposing, just stop the dialog and go back to the "Bubble".

Bunch of sore losers on this thread. Maybe the school district can hand out some participation trophies. Our liberal institutions to be adept at that.

Brilliant point. Obviously they aren't adept at teaching grammer, but maybe you didn't go to Haddonfield as a kid.

Question: We have been paying an "open space" tax for more than five years. In fact, that tax was designated for the Bancroft purchase in a recent election. Now that Bancroft is off the table, is there any "open space" to be had in this town"? Why must we continue to pay this tax if we can't buy anything?

$16 million purchase was averted plus additional bond monies for future costs Enviromental and demo costs at union wages so we saved over $32. Million of additional taxes plus overhead we need to fix Radnor field and the existing school facities

We can still obtain the additional field and parking at no cost and share with Bancroft for different events start working on that proposal and apply pressure to the commissioners to do the right thing by the tax payers

Depending on Bancroft's development plans.

The current tax was extended in 2011 until 2016. We have ~900k which we paid into the fund that can be used sometime in the future. Since this failed, we have no land available to develop with these funds. If space becomes open sometime in the future (50 years? 75 years?) this money can be applied to that development. Until then, I'm sure it is held in some sort of trust.

J. Sheridan. I think you might be on to something. Here's the link to the Camden County Open Space web site. http://www.camdencounty.com/parks/going-green/open-space-farmland-preservation.
They distinctly list recreational areas that their funds have been used for. Wouldn't it be great if we could recoup some of our tax monies to the county and use them to maintain and improve the current open space we have.

The open space money was only for the borough portion of the purchase, as was all the matching open space money. It was a joint purchase. The portion bought by the borough with open space funds would have been open space in perpetuity

Dave,
It appears from the link you sent that the open space tax we pay in Haddonfield can be used to maintain all recreational fields. That would include Radnor even though it is owned by the BOE. Using the funds for the dying trees is a noble idea, but I'm not sure if that would be covered unless the trees are located in "open space".

Reply to Herb Hess
As it happens, my son graduated from the high school in 1998 so I have had some experience with the school system. In fact, when I was back there for the B of E meeting in December, ithe high school looked frozen in time from 1998. No one expects freedom from maintenance or repairs. The question is how did we get to the present 28 million needed for maintenance as estimated by the Board's own architect. Was this deferred or neglected maintenance? I recognize that maintenance isn't sexy to sell. The schools function well with good teachers but we are way behind comparable districts in the technology use and education we offer our kids.

Whatever back room deal existed between Borough Hall and the Board of Education that got the school district into the business of being involved with affordable housing, preserving open space and buying 19 acreas is done. Bancroft is going to reinvest in their property. The Board of Education is not going to be a land developer. Experiment rejected by the community. One great benefit of this referendum is that the BOE will not be able to sell/develop Radnor field as they clearly wanted to have the option to do this. Maybe they can start to focus on fundamentals instead of looking for grand plans.

Herb, roof repair should be done with out union wages triple the price so we need to work to keep the cost down. Simple maintenance should not cost thousand but hundreds of dollars. The Borough does not how to maintain the building and infra structure in town. Salaries are so high and pension cost and health cost are too high cap those costs going forward

Great plan. Let's educate ourselves AFTER the vote fails. Typical.

The "Secret Plan" is available and was shared with all of the voters. Here's the link:

http://www.haddonfield.k12.nj.us/Home_Page_Attachments/LongRangeFaciltiesPlan.pdf

Of course, most people did not read it (Yes and No), but it looks like a significant amount of the $28M in repairs has already taken place, and the rest are planned as a part of the normal "routine" maintenance and is included in the annual capital budget.

My mistake. I agree that the more information, the better. Since you saw the report, do you have any insight into the items that made up the $10M of "unfunded" items that would need to addressed in the 5 year window, or any insight into items that are a "Must Do" vs. "Nice to Have"?

I have the report. It was issued by Garrison Architects in June 2012. The BOE has stated it was a wish list and some of it is, such as a playground but the vast majority of it is essential repairs. Allow me to list a small sampling.

Elizabeth Haddon
Roof replacement/rear section $750,500
Security cameras $50,000
Replace existing boilers $250,000
Replace (2) roof top units $200,000

Central School
replace existing boilers $250,000
HVAC constuction $312,000
electrical construction $62,000 (level one)
HVAC constuction $375,000 (level two)
Electrical constuction $93,000 (level two)
security cameras $50,000

Middle school
Emergency generator $200,000
security cameras $50,000
Exterior renovations $312,000
Interior renovations $881,000
HVAC construction $718,750 (level two)
Electrical construction $750,000 (level two)

Tatum
Replace existing boilers $250,000
security cameras $25,000
renovate toilets $100,000

High school - With exterior and interior renovations, HVAC construction, electrical constuction ($2,523 750 alone) and plumbing the cost is 7,423,750 million. Just on the first level alone. Feel free to present these facts to the BOE.

Wow... it's OVER kids!

I sure would love to meet Mrs. Silance Ishgulden on this topic.

Bumpkin- Help Brian Kelly with his math.

I guess I'm being censored now since my last couple of posts didn't show up, but I would like the details of the "Garrison Report", so I can do the math myself.

Thanks Doctor- I will take a look.

reposting from a later article
The BOE, the Commissioners, and the developers all told the residents that in order to prepare for our future we needed to shoulder the costs of this development. Not once did I hear any of the triumvirate mention what they were going to do to help ease the cost of this project. What expenses could the BOE or our town cut to help the greater good of the community? What spending cuts would the BOE make? Everyone else in the private sector pays for benefits and their retirement. Why can't the public sector in Haddonfield do the same? Or how about our public works department or our town halls combine with other municipalities to help ease costs? Nope. It was always "we need to do this for the future, and YOU taxpayers need to pay this." This expectation is not realistic today. The private sector is tired of supporting everyone else while their standard of living stagnates. In any negotiation you have to give some in order to get something in return. That did not happen and a poorly communicated plan by our public servants resulted in the defeat of a great idea