That's why he isn't a teacher...If he were there may be a point to how much he is worth. Not to mention he isn't worth a hill of beans as far as I'm concerned. But even the incompetant are sometime right.

Finally a serious and honest answer. That's a breath of fresh air. So, Daniel, what should we do, pay all the teachers a million dollars a year? They're worth it, right? It's for the children. Most of my teachers were nothing short of babysitters and that was years ago; today it's infinitely worse. Forget the fact that I'm watching T.V. commercials by an international corporation (I believe it was ExxonMobil) that is pushing for the U.S. to get on the stick since we're ranked like 25th amongst industrialized nations in education. Did you get that, 25th! This is a complete travesty and all I ever read is praise for our educational system and teachers. And when I point to the actual facts of our educational system...well forget about any honest dialog there.
So, when will all the really caring teachers finally stand up and demand that the NEA be disbanded and take things into their own hands to get our educational system back on track? Maybe then we can be the light on the hill for the nations that we used to be.

I'd say I haven't had many bad experiences so far. I've been quite happy with all my kids teachers. The only thing I can say is speak up if there's a problem and you aren't getting anywhere. Put all those administrators to work!

T Jones, you're just not getting it. Your kids have not had any bad experiences, but when your kids graduate and you find out that their education puts them 25th in the line for a specific job behind graduates from every other industrialized nation, then what?
BTW, while we're 25th in academics behind every one of our serious competitors in the world job market, American students are #1 in self-esteem. Now isn't that just peachy? So, our children are somewhere around 25th in math and science but they feel like they're number 1. That is a fact and I'd be willing to debate anyone who can show me otherwise.

Actually, Creationism is less of a "junk science" than evolution. There are more scientific discoveries that support creationism on a bio-mechanical level than there are for evolution. Actually, scientifically speaking, there is no support for evolution.

Wow- you get absolutely no vacation time? Most Americans work 52 weeks? I get 6 weeks in the private sector. If you aren't a business owner, I'd sure love to hear what you do.

Do you honestly believe that most teachers don't work at least 40 hrs a week? I guess there is a magic fairy that grades papers, grades tests, plans lessons, sets up the classroom, reads and grades essays. I wish I had that magic wand that teachers have to get all this work done without needing any extra time to do it.

Hey, T Jones, I'm an engineer for a world-class corporation, Lockheed Martin, with close to 30 years and I get 4 weeks. The original corporation that started my location, RCA, originally awarded up to 6 weeks after 20-or-so years but that ended years ago with everyone capped at 4 weeks unless they already had more. Additionally, I know plenty of people who are happy that they get 2 weeks. As for teachers...the school day is approximately 6 hours if that because many have open time during the day so given an 8 hour day that should give them plenty of time to do what they need to do. In the end, regardless of their weekly hours (and there are many other people in the private sector who routinely work over 40 hours), teachers have a nine month year. So, what are you really trying to say?

Brian - If we're going to tell teachers that they have to pay up for their benefits then we should also be prepared to re-imburse them for their time if they proctor after school activities and any supplies that they pay for out of pocket because the school isn't able to provide them. It's a double edged sword. Please note - I am NOT a teacher.

Hey Paul, you forget to mention you also get 2 weeks of sick leave (PI) and about 10 paid holidays a year (H or HF). Yeah, I used to work for Lockheed so I know what you get. That takes you up to almost 8 weeks off a year so what's your point on teachers that work 10 months a year (Sept. 1 through June 30 contracts)?

Sorry Phil, I thought we were talking vacation. What happens when a teacher gets sick? What do teachers do on the Christmas/New Year's break? How about the Spring break? How about Memorial Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and the day after, etc? BTW, Phil, I get 4 weeks and 12 holidays. There is no encouragement to use PI but my position offers 5 days if needed, so if you used 10 a year, as I know some people in the unions do, more power to you.

Paul, fine, let's have the teachers in school teaching year round in unair-conditioned classrooms. Let's see what the parents have to say when there kids will only not be in school 3 weeks in July, 3 weeks in December, and 3 weeks in April. They'd flip. They flip out now when there might be howework or a project due on Monday. School districts have put rules in place limiting homework. I know a major one by the shore, the district doesn't come to mind right now though. I have many friends and relatives that are teachers and you'd be shocked of all the excuses or complaining they get when assigning something a week out. Little Johnny has soccer, baseball, we need to go to our shore house, blah blah blah so when is he supposed to have to finish this? Like I said, I'd have no problems going year round with a few 3 week breaks here and there, like after every marking period, perhaps, I just know parent's would freak out.

Bill, what are you talking about? Your great NJ education sure leaves you challenged in comprehension. I never said my education didn't work out. I said I got very little from the public school. The only subject of which I can legitimately look back and say profited me was Algebra and I would give myself 1/2 credit for that with the other half going to an instructor. I would have to say that the lion's share of what I learned came from books that I read. Oh, I have a B.S. as well, but no biggie. It's a piece of paper that someone wanted to see so I got it. Furthermore, prior to my degree I took courses at Camden County College and with the exception of a few classes there, I were the one paying for those courses (my employer paid most of it) I would have been incensed at the inferior value of the product that was offered.
Finally, do your homework, whatever rank New Jersey holds amongst other states (BTW, don't we pay near the top per student?), when the U.S. is 25th in the world that top ranking here starts to become meaningless.
I know, let's blame all the corporations for sending jobs oversea while we encourage all of our kids to get degrees in education, literature, and history. Let the other countries in the world worry about getting math and engineering degrees. What a joke. Wake up, America.

Dan, the same could be said of the daily trials of a fireman, cop, school bus driver, manager of a McDonalds, CPA's, lawyers, doctors and so forth. If a teacher finds his or her job to be an eye opening experience then would it not make sense to switch to a different industry that is more to his or her liking?

Amen Dan! And the person who said that teachers are just "babysitters" should be the first in line to do just that! Anyone who thinks teachers are "babysitters" hasn't got a CLUE what goes on in a public school today.

Hello, Anonymous in Cinnaminson (interesting name), I raised six kids, worked and went to school (numerous times) while working, and shared the burden of homeschooling my children with my wife for twenty years. Now, let's talk about babysitting. I remember a teacher in Woodbury, the parent of a boy on my son's little league team, telling my wife she didn't know how she could school her own children and that she wouldn't be able to do it.
Now man up; what's your name and what do you do for a living?

I would say that the Governor hasn't put down teachers, but the NJEA. You are correct, they are now paying more for their insurance, thanks to the Governor, but they are still paying far less (for better plans) than most public sector workers. Yes, they have to pay more into their pension plan, but it is still a fraction of what other employees pay for their pensions. The point is, that for years the NJEA has been raping the taxpayers (with assistance from our politicians), and now the gravy train has ended. So sad. If it is that miserable being a teacher, try another line of work.

As I said before, "most" teachers aren't done at 3:30. The ones I know have hours of planning and grading to do at night instead of spending time with their families. They do way more than 40 hours a week.

Everyone always complains that they have their summer off. Are you suggesting taking away the kids summer break then? Who cares about the teachers, you'd be taking away this time to recharge for the kids. Imagine your childhood without a summer. If all you want is the teachers to work year round, that's fine. Most of them are there all of August anyway setting up their rooms. Not because they get paid(which they don't in the summer), because they do it for the kids. Again, there are exceptions like a gym teacher as someone pointed out.

What gets me is that people have more venom for 50-60k middle class workers that actually pay taxes just like us than for CEO's that make 9 figures and don't pay taxes because of tax loopholes and get bonuses for losing all of our invested money. Boggles my mind.

Because you're not going to be able to get an affordable convention with the required hotel rooms in AC in the summer for the price they get in November. Same with the Fire and Police conventions, they're all done "off-season" at AC. If you moved them to the summer, it would actually adverse the AC economy also.

As for the trimesters, first, most states that do that now, have AC in every school. I remember all the articles last year about when it got hot, schools had to close half-days because of the heat due to no air conditioning. I wouldn't be opposed but I wonder how many parents would be willing to give up their shore houses when their kid has to go to school all through July?

Because who wants to fly to Florida in the summer? The convention is in November, but the only reason most teachers are in AC at that time is to catch a flight to Florida.

Paul, first, when you ask a question you need to allow time for someone to answer, so your "chirp, chirp" is a tad silly. Second, the global ranking of our schools is a reflection on federal education policy, not what happens in the classroom. Teachers are forced to teach to a standardized test via NCLB and have zero flexibility in the curriculum they choose. Michelle Rhee, who was widely considered a wunderkind of education, has been exposed as a system rigger who falsely reported scores and worked the system to hide deficiencies instead of trying to fix them. Her tenure as Ed Sec was a disaster. Third, we are one of the only industrialized nations that doesn't send kids to school year round. That gives other nations a clear advantage in the educational process. Fourth, when you hear about how great teachers are doing, I doubt you're hearing that from a national perspective. I know what I'm hearing is that NJ is doing well compared to the other 49 states. The lower states are abysmal in the rankings. And I know you'll discount that by repeating your "if we're 25th out of 100, big deal" mantra, but that's the answer to your question. If that is your reply, then you're starting an entirely different discussion. Last but not least, the system is broken, agreed, but despite the volumes of comments made by you, I've yet to see a suggestion on how to fix it. How you give that a try for a change. That would truly be a "breath of fresh air." And no, I'm not a teacher.

It's all about putting on a good face, Chris. It's the same as all the hooting, hollering, and cheering that went on when we were told that unemployment dropped to 8.1% (since when is that a good number?) but were never told that the new number neglected the half a million people that just gave up looking, and that's just recently (I believe the actual number is around 86 million who are now invisible to the unemployment numbers). The fact is that our workforce is the smallest it's been since the Eighties. Anybody that is willing to know the truth has every tool they need in a Google search to find out just how bad our educational system is and how bad of a job Mr. Obama has done on his promises to bring down unemployment after billions of dollars of stimulus.
Mr. Obama, is employing an old tactic used by the Romans, who also spent and taxed themselves into oblivion, to distract us - Give them more circuses; Birth Control and the War on Women; If I had a son he would like like Trayvon; I'm against same-sex marriage...no, I'm in favor of same-sex marriage...and the circuses continue coming to town. The people can remain ignorant just as long as they desire but one thing is for sure, you can't fool all the people all of the time.

Unfortunately, colleges right now have entered a new phase. It's the "Minority Phase." Your best shot at a prestigious college at this point is to be part of a favored minority. Once you get it it's more important to walk lock-step with your liberal professor's views on life than to think critically. So, where do we go from here?

Townie, I agree with pretty much everything you said. We do lack critical thinkers but that trend started a long time ago and is evident in many of comments you read here. Most are regurgitated talking points (see "minority phase" comment and just about anything else he posts) without any real thought, investigation or critical processing of the information that is gleaned. It's too easy to read something, take a point or two out of the article and then post it in online forums posing as truth and intimating the poster has some kind of personal knowledge of the topic. The reality is, it's just something that jibed with a certain agenda or ideology that is used to make a point that is vapid and shallow as the poster.

Anonymous, you call it hate, I call it the hard truth which you continue to deny. Can you answer as to why 1/2 of our graduates applying for a job that requires an eighth grade math aptitude register a failing grade?
As for working with kids, I've never taught in a school but I've worked with classroom's full of kids before. You're offended by the term babysitting...I responded to a mention indifference to 70% of over 200 teachers someone had personal contact with and a 20% excellence rating. I followed up on that by using the term babysitting for what I saw when I was in school.
Rather than spew your hate towards me and call me a liar just answer the questions and silence me.
1. Why do 50% of our graduates have problems on an 8th grade math aptitude test?
2. Why is our country ranked so low amongst the other industrialized nations (25th in math)?
3. Why do private school students score so much better than public school students?
4. Who is responsible for the above numbers?
BTW, no one has tried to stop you from speaking your mind. Has anyone called you a liar for speaking your mind? Rather, you have called me a liar for speaking my mind.
I guess it's easier to avoid the truth (whatever that is) by calling me a liar than actually answering my questions and proving me wrong.
You don't need to take my word for it, just enter "What's wrong with our educational system" into a Google search...if you dare!

Anon...

I wasn't sure what you were saying with your challenge?

Your post makes it sound like an act of survival. While I'll grant you that may be the case in some inner city schools, It's an exception. If its so horrible, such hard work, requires endless hours of dedication...quit. People do it all the time in other fields They also get fired for little or no reason, something the NJEA sees fit to limit.

While I appreciate that good teachers work hard and should be compensated fairly, what most people struggle with is determine fair and enduring the sizable minority who are just plain bad at their jobs. If its 5 or 10% its too high. Those folks are protected, and the combination of poor performance and an inability to make any significant change is frustrating.

Teachers live in a bubble, and the rest of the world is adapting more quickly to change....because they have to. It's a real problem that saying "it's a tough job" won't fix.

Yes, talk to the people in the field; totally unbiased point of view. Then ask the president of the NJEA what they need to make our schools better as well. That will be informative.
Keep your head in the sand Anonymous because you really already know the answers, right? The figures regarding graduates failing an 8th grade math aptitude test came from the Patch's article titled, "NJ to Change Graduation Test Requirements" on May 1st, 2012. Here's the quote, "Surveys found that a significant chunk of New Jersey high school graduates need academic remediation in college, and that just half can pass an eighth-grade mathematics aptitude test needed for entry-level jobs." (http://gloucestertownship.patch.com/articles/nj-to-change-graduation-test-requirements) Yea, I fudged the numbers all right.
So, I base my information on my past experiences in school which extended over my whole life, the short time my children spent in the public schools, and reading what others have to say. You, on the other hand have no interest in anything that contradicts what you know so you try to lecture me from your homegrown facts. Find out what the community colleges are saying about our graduates and their need for high school remediation before they can take community college courses.
Get real, our schools are in the swirl cycle of the big flush and you're still telling me how great they are.
Have a great day, and stay Anonymous.

Private schools Im familiar with use the CTP4 (comprehensive testing program 4) developed by the Education records bureau. I believe they are equivalent

Wait Archie Bunker, I don't think the private and public school testing can be equivalent...because the teachers and Anonymous keep telling us so. See, that's too much of an inconvenient truth because then that would mean the private schools really are better than the public schools. And Anonymous writes that I have a warped sense of reality. That is just to funny.

Wait, Anonymous, you don't have to Google (because your private sources are all knowing) but you want me to Google. Oh, the inhumanity of it.
If you think I've stopped taking you seriously you are absolutely correct. Whenever you are willing to debate verifiable facts you know where you can find me; until then, keep it Anonymous.

There is nothing wrong with that. However, the teachers union has been very reluctant to face both the economic and educational realities that face both our town and to a larger extent our nation. We are falling behind the world in education, and we all must make changes to correct that trend. Unfortunately, IMO, the union has been obstructionists.

You do realize how many people take their kids on vacation at that time right? There's a reason it's called NJ week in Florida. Everyone is there, yes that does include teachers, but it's also parents/families. Before I go any farther, I don't think you or anyone else commenting on conventions has ever actually run one. I've assisted with them so I have a little insight. You have to reserve blocks of hotel rooms and you usually shoot for that block being half of your expected attendees or whatever the max might be for that hotel/location when you run a convention (anyone who's done wedding planning also knows this). You always try to get the lowest rate. In NJ, that's not going to be during the summer and most certainly not going to be holiday times. So what's that leave you with? It leaves during the "off-season" of post Labor Day through pre Memorial Day, minus the winter holidays.

Anonymous. You asked, I delivered; the data didn't compute in your small mind so I'm a hypocrite. FYI, that is just one tiny piece of evidence that our current educational system is bankrupt. To quote Kuato from Total Recall, "Open your mind."
And, yes, the article was about NJ changing it's standards...and why would NJ do that? Because the present standards have not worked; another failed experiment on the children of New Jersey. You might also notice that NJ had to revise its data that stated we have a 94.7% graduation rate here because it's really only 83%. Oh wait, your mind tells you that's not believable either.
I personally know a student that graduated from one of our regional high schools with a B average that entitled her to a free ride at Camden County College. Unfortunately she failed the English and Math entrance tests at CCC and was required to take remedial English and math on her own dime. Ask all your references how that happened. And that's a common complaint from the college about incoming students.
When all is done, read anything by John Taylor Gatto, 3-time 'Teacher of the Year' in New York, about our school systems...or, read this: http://solutions-for-schools.com/in-response-to-allegations-of-propaganda-and-the-absurb-assertion-there-is-no-education-crisis/
I'm sure I'm just spinning my wheels asking you to get a third party opinion because you already know everything about it. And you call me a hypocrite...
Don't take yourself so seriously.

I submitted data that you questioned. I then proffered the reference, link,and quote and you blew it off as not true because it didn't jive with your know-it-all experience. The information is out there about the educational system in general in the U.S. and specifically about NJ but you don't have to look at it because you have insider information that trumps all the data.
Oh wait, I can't know because I won't take a day off of work and go sit in the schools. Five of my six children spent some of their time in the public school system in New Jersey, I know what went on. I, myself, spent time in the NJ public school system in the sixties. You seem to think that the schools are better today then they were in the sixties when I attended; what world are you living in? I then spent time in the community college system through the eighties and nineties off and on. Again, I was not impressed.
I'll tell you what, show me some hard data that qualifies your thinking that schools are better today than in the seventies and I'll concede that point but don't give me, 'I don't need to research it because I already know.'
What I did deliver were references to back up my point of view. What did you deliver? Nothing but pontificating that you know better that everything is A-okay. Maybe you should go back to school yourself for a little while and find out that any paper you present on a subject has to be documented and footnoted for it to carry any weight.
Where's the beef, Anonymous?

While you're telling people to take remedial English you might want to check up on the correct placement of question marks, Chris. Just sayin':-)
Okay, the stat stated that employers who required applicants to take a math proficiency test based on 8th grade standards found that 50% they tested failed to qualify. The standard you quote, which I have not checked, states that 57.9% are proficient at the 11th grade level. Proficient in whose eyes? Obviously not in the eyes of those who are looking to employ them.
The fact is, and there are stats out there to qualify this, half of the adults in the U.S. (most of whom are products of the public school) read below an eighth grade level.
I read years ago that the community colleges were complaining that they were having to dedicate too many resources to remedial courses for students who were coming out of the high schools and were supposed to be proficient in English and math. It has not changed as evidenced by the story I related above about the student I knew that revived a scholarship for a B average and the had to take remedial English and math. She is not alone.
Consider this for what it's worth: the Bible, long the best selling book in the world, was published and read in the U.S. (even used in our schools) for years in the King James Version. This is considered to be at a 12th grade or higher reading level. The newer versions, especially the best selling NIV, are written at a 7th grade level. Why do you think that is?

Paul, you're going to critique others writing mistakes? Ok kettle.
I also should have capitalized the word "English". Shame on me.

Proficient in the eyes of the NJDE.

No, the quote states: "only half (NJ HS graduates) can pass an eighth-grade mathematics aptitude test needed for entry-level jobs."
It doesn't say, employers who required applicants to take a math proficiency test based on 8th grade standards found that 50% they tested failed to qualify.

Until you can show a link to the actual test results, I call BS on that.

No, thank you, Sean, and I mean that sincerely!

I find it interesting that my livelihood becomes a question for so many. How do you know where I am and what I am doing with my time? Did I question anybody else as to why they had time to read and respond to me? Another tactic to bury the facts and put up smokescreens it seems.
Look to yourself, my friend, if I may be so bold to use such language!