This is a classic attack line from Opposition groups. "Why the rush?" Let's see how many years should this be studied and years before completed and years before utilized? If taking this long is rushing, I'd hate to see what rushing really looks like.

Jeff H - give your questions to Bill and he will get answers from the BOE and township then we can judge for ourselves.

Kudo's to the community and supporters for raising the $600k in addition to all the high, overburdened taxes you pay. Add that to the open space money from the county and township and you have solved a problem cost effectively.

PS - was your cap locks key busted or WERE YOU YELLING????

Brian, see that;s what I like about you. They should pay for it all themselves because they don't pay any taxes and don't expect and benefits from them? I'm going to remember that next time the libary wants anything new or the tree committee or others because we are now picking and choosing how people pay for things.
How about you and I start paying for our roads every 8 years too since that is how long paving lasts although its borrowed for 20 years. Others shouldn't pay for your street or mine right?

I don't support raising taxes. I support eliminating pensions and paying as much for healthcare so the money we already paid goes to things we actually benefit from. Plenty of money already...just all spent on payroll items.

I am making my case. You are opposed of it but support tax increases for payroll. I know we can do this with no more taxes if anyone would listen.

It is shocking that in a town that already pays $60 million a year in property taxes and spends more than that is all of the sudden upset about something that will benefit generations to come. What is 1/16 of this cost annually relative to our tax bills or spending? 1/60?? 1/70??

Joe Taxpayer, You support raising taxes. This bill will raise taxes. Many of the streets, like Cedar Ave, Pardee Lane and Lakeview Ave are in terrible condition. We have photo albums of them on Haddonfield United and plan to publish more as we approach the January 22 vote. You're also going to read about the crumbling water system and why that's a priority over this bill.
It's not like I need to explain this as you really know but for your edification I'll say it one more time. Due diligence is needed for a towns infrastructure. If you don't it will cost you far more in taxes down the road. The lack of stewardship in our town comes from people like you who would rather spend money on turf fields and the referendum.
Your argument of calling me a radical liberal activist campaigner and throwing buzzwords like benefits and payroll in all your posts are politics 101 and you're not too proficient at it. You're for the Bancroft turf issue. You're for the future costs that will come with it. You're for raising taxes. If you think it's a wise expenditure just explain why.
I understand why people are more comfortable not using their real name, but if you believe in your viewpoint, which is obviously passionate enough for you to write your posts the way you do, just use your real name and address the issue.

So you want me to pay higher taxes to pave those streets? What benefit do I receive?

I use buzzwords??? You never answer any questions but simply make stuff up as you go. How will it raise taxes? How do you know for sure? What about debt paydowns and other costs going down? What about offsets? What about cost savings? What about new revenues streams? What future costs? Don't roads you want fixed have future costs? Who is paying for them? Who is paying for library improvements that are not needed in the 21st century?

More insults "lack of stewardship"? That is another classic radical phrase too. Heck if you think these guys have a lack of stewardship, what do you think about Obamination? And how is solving problems for your citizens a lack of stewardship? We have a great town that needs to be invested in. You even said so. There is finite resources too much wasted government payroll and inefficient unions. We could do all of this and spend less if we didn't have them. Would that make you happy?

Run for office if you think you are a "good steward" These people are our friends and neighbors and you attack their character and motives. I can respect your disagreeing on the merits but not with BS. we have proven our committment with $600k raised for something we know solves lots of problems.

and BTW, my name is Joe Taxpayer. My cousin is Joe the Plumber

Dedicated taxes paid for this purpose is "wasted" then why have them? Means no new taxes so that kinda kills that argument.

Now you are claiming you have expertise on valuation of land??

How does it maximize the returns of those locally connected? What does that even mean?

Will you stand with me and oppose all increased spending for healthcare benefits next year?

Joe, I have stood with others to oppose needless increased spending on several fronts over the years. Nothing new here. In terms of my expertise, my valuation references can be found in the Borough's and BoE's own documents, which I have posted previously about in greater detail.

I applaud you for that Jack S. Can you share some examples of "needless increased spending" ?

You are comparing apples and oranges on the valuation. If you are right and the town is going to pay more than its worth, why not file an injunction to stop them? If you are right, how hard could it be to prove they are wrong? Obviously they disagree so are you suggesting they are being negligent or criminal in signing the contract for the deal? You cannot be correct and they cannot be innocent right?

Now I know I can count on your for the budget fights next year for higher taxes for pensions, salaries and healthcare so it will not add to the burden of our citizens.

Chris Christie in 2013!

JEFF WHY ARE YOU YELLING? SCRAPE TOGETHER? ARE YOU KIDDING? WE PAY MORE EACH YEAR AND THE UNIONS SPEND IT ON HEALTHCARE AND PENSIONS AND NOT THINGS THAT BENEFIT STUDENTS OR TAXPAYERS! THERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY ITS JUST ALL TIED UP IN PAYROLL LIKE SPENDING $1M MORE ON HEALTHCARE. LETS FREE SOME OF IT UP AND INVEST IN CAPITAL? YOU WITH ME?

MEDS? Fixing the sewer system would be in the sewer budget not these. Maybe do some homework pal instead of mocking me. Who are you to say safer and multipurpose fields are nice to haves vs must haves? Have you looked at the cost savings vs maintaining poor grass fields? Have you considered the unbelieveable commitment from your fellow taxpayers to fundraise to offset the costs.

Paving your street is not a must have for me? Paying for your healthcare is not a must have for me. Hold some fundraisers like we did.

Joe T, Considering Robert Grady's prominence in this town I think it's safe to say he's done his homework. He's not mocking you, he's making a valid point you don't agree with.
Your comments towards the commitment of our fellow taxpayers to raise money to offset the the cost is notable but as you say 'hold some fundraisers like we did" quite obviously shows you're involved in the turf committee.
Turf is not a popular issue, One reason being you're all so hell bent on getting it installed.
The BoE should have done a better job at keeping your, shall we say, enthusiasm a little more in check.
The BoE should have done a lot of things better.

Oh his prominence! I am impressed. Turf is not a popular issue? Have you looked around at our neighboring towns, Shawnee, Cherokee, Moorestown building #2, Giants Stadium, over 400 fields in NJ......not popular?

Rutgers University recently upgraded to FieldTurf Durapsine Pro as a part of the football stadium expansion program, while Princeton University installed its 3rd and 4th FieldTurf surface this year.

Fairleigh Dickenson has chosen FieldTurf for a 3rd time as well for its baseball stadium field upgrade. Rider University was also added to the already impressive list of collegiate users in the state. FieldTurf is now used at 23 college level fields in NJ alone representing almost all collegiate level fields throughout the State.

High school users of FieldTurf remain the product’s #1 fan. New Jersey is now home to a total of 150 high school fields, with over 110 of them being public high schools. In 2010, sixteen new high schools chose FieldTurf. Ten were public High Schools and six were private. These sixteen High School fields represent 100% of all high school fields in New Jersey that were purchased to date in 2010.

FieldTurf is proud to announce the recent addition of 6 new fields at the private high school level - Oratory Prep, Notre Dame Prep HS, Red Bank Catholic HS, Union Catholic HS, and Delbarton Prep (2).

Private high school users now total 37 which include some nationally recognized athletic programs such as Don Bosco Prep, Bergen Catholic, St Peters Prep, St. Joe’s HS, and many others in addition to the recent installations listed above

We do agree that the BOE could do better at some things. For example, they can hold the line on healthcare costs and not raise our taxes for that since it doesn't benefit us to pay more for SOMEONE else's benefits

Paul VI around the corner, Bishop Eustace and Camden Catholic all have turf fields too. wonder why? could it be the amount of use they get without closure, irrigation, maintenance, grass cutting, etc?

No Jack S that is not the argument. Bancroft should stand on its merits. The point of highlighting the other taxes and spending is to show the hypocrisy of those opposed solely on the basis of it's tax impact. If you and others are willing to freeze all spending and taxes no matter for what, that would be a better argument. Attacking the Bancroft deal with made up attacks is useless.

Keep trying to spin your illogical opposition. If Bancroft doesn't happen, your taxes will still go up for no increased benefit but you won't still complain will ya?

Jack I moved on long ago. Taxes and spending are the issue and only issue whether it be this situation or others. My experience shows no one opposes spending unless it is spending they don't like. If we all opposed spending, why do we spend so much locally and nationally.

You make some good points but then you close with "bond debacle" What bond debacle? We pay down our debts and we borrow more to fix other things. No bond debacle. Our credit is good and unlike our friends in Washington, we actually pay back what we borrow. Have a good day.

You are wrong. Anonymity provides for freedom of expression. Kinda what the internet is all about. Guess you missed that memo. Its kind of been the rage lately. I suggest your repeating over and over here and elsewhere that you want people to identify themselves has more to do with attacking messengers (which you can't do when they are anonymous) than the messages. Try to focus on the issues and not on who is posting. For instance, I have seen you attack people because you do not believe they live in town, so try being less of a hypocrite and holier than thou.

Agreed Bill. The poster who says that anonymity provides "freedom of expression" might be reminded that the Constitution provides that right. The internet is a communication tool. I recognize that legitimate differences of opinion exist, that informs a healthy debate. I have no use, however, for the cowardly zealots on either side who are embarrassed by their own words or just enjoy slinging mud.

Put your big boy pants on...time to grow up.

Exactly Pat. This anonymous poster did an excellent job of proving my fundamental point with this post as well as the others that they peppered me with elsewhere in this thread. Civil discourse on local public matters like this has traditionally been an area where Haddonfield excels and something that we can be proud of. There is a Haddonfield saying in relation to our public meetings: "Haddonfielders can disagree without being disagreeable". When people who lack the courage to come out of the shadows and stand behind their words choose to get behind their secret identities and take cheap shots, they shame the process and our community. They know that if they identified themselves that people will think less of them personally and they lack the guts to do that. This all proves my point that people do not speak to each other that way when there is this basic accountability and the conversation stays civil as a result. Most people choose to avoid conflict and nastiness and thus tolerating this abuse by allowing anonymous comments serves to prevent wider resident participation here.

Right, 20 30 50 years from now, WE will have already paid higher taxes so the school board can buy 19 acres of land that needs to be redeveloped. Who are you kidding? It makes no sense for the school board to buy 19 acres. You weren't talking so glowingly about how visionary our leaders were when the concept of a larger old folks home was an issue.

Why you feel the need to post these sermons is beyond me.

Brian,

You can? Go ahead. Look at all the great school systems. They all have turf. It is a fact turf is popular and the way to go.

How many turf fields does Summit have (4)? Bridgewater (3) ? Toms River? Hunterdon Central, Hillsborough, Montgomery.....on and on....

Where was the last Super Bowl played? It will be hosted in NJ on turf in 2014.

Evesham township has 2 fields. Mt laurel has one. Moorestown 2.

They are so popular that the State green Acres Trust is building them in urban areas with state open space money.

"Some enhanced facilities of the park include a synthetic turf football field, baseball and multi-use athletic fields and observation decks overlooking the Rahway River."

http://www.nj.gov/dep/newsrel/2012/12_0106.htm

They don't pay taxes as high as us!?! What? Back to the tax business again? Prove they don't. Prove the North Jersey towns that all have turf don't pay the taxes we do. What is the allocation of local to county too since we are getting robbed by Camco relative to quality counties like Burl and Hunt and Somerset

More excuses about damages and trees now? Come on, another tactic of organizers is to change the topic and introduce new excuses/arguments when they are challenged with facts. 1/3 of the trees around town are dying from natural causes.

Go ahead and prove turf is unpopular and not the solution to the problem.

Brian, hate to rain on your parade but open space money is OK for active recreation. Read up on your state, county and local statutes. I'm happy to provide them if your google is busted. In fact, when we passed the referendum a few years ago, we added the uses just for this purpose.

"If terms favorable to the Borough are proposed by Bancroft, it is our intention to use the funds generated by the Open Space Tax up to now and in the near future to fund the acquisition and improvement of portions of the Bancroft property for ACTIVE and passive recreation."
http://www.haddonfieldnj.org/news/?p=450
OPEN SPACE TAX REFERENDUM QUESTION
The Haddonfield Open Space Tax is up for renewal and will be a referendum question on the ballot November 8, 2011. Municipalities that collect an Open Space Tax are eligible for State Green Acres grants. Without such a tax, a municipality cannot receive these grants. The Open Space Tax can be used for:
1. The purchase of land for active recreation such as sports fields;