Does anyone know what the rational is behind artificial turf on the practice field next to the football field? Will it be safe to light off the July 4th fireworks on this surface? It seems like the football field is enough of an undertaking if there is a desire to implement a conversion of a major playing field to a turf surface.

The rationale seems to be that they get a discount rate. All the environmental issues regaridng Anniversary Field - the problems with the fill below it, the trees around it and the proximity to environmentally sensitive wetlands were discussed. None of that seemed to matter. It was suggested that they turf Centenial Field instead for a second field but Tish was concerned that there would be too much parking in that neighborhood if they turfed it. I think they are getting it cheaper if they do too. The engineers from R and V were unable to answer any questions about the environmental impact of turfing Anniversary Field.

Can someone tell me why our taxes which fund the open-space trust are being used for an existing open-space? Shouldn't that fund be soley for the aquistions of NEW OPEN SPACE not to refurhbish an existing open-space. Also, how much public access will be avaialbel to these turf fields?

Robin Potter, the Head of the Shade Tree Commission, pointed out that the trenches to lay the pipe for the runoff will be cut through the trees' root zone, so the expectation is that this will kill the trees. Those root systems help stabilize the sloping area down towards Hopkins Pond so that it would not be surprising to see erosion which will have the potential to alter the grade of the slope. The ivy could be cut back but if they turf Anniversary Field, the trees will likely die. Sorry you had to be in the mud but at least it is mud, not rubbin infile that leaches lead dust onto the field and zinc into the water.

Sorry typo - rubber infile - the stuff that has to be removed as hazardous waste in 8 to 10 years when the field is replaced. The FDA has no jurisdiction over turf fields. The zinc leakage into Hopkins Pond is an issue for aquatic life and the environment. The $600,000 barely buys half of the proposed fields and does not pay for maintenance or for replacement costs or for damage outside the warranty - animals, tree limbs, high heels, fire damage. The taxpayers are on the hook for that, UNLESS they decide to contract with Energy in the Bank and get the field for free as Irvington did. By the way, it was my impression that the engineers were clueless about the trees - good thing Robin Potter was there - and also oblivious to the environmental impacts - good thing Mary Fagan was there asking questions they were unable to answer.

Like i said. FDA or whoever....High Heels!!!! Are you kidding. What an alarmist. What coach or kid is walking across a turf field in high heels? I'm not even sure that would cause damage to begin with. Kids play on turf with cleats so I'm sure it will be fine next time the women's auxiliary decides to play a pick up rugby game. No $600,000 doesn't cover it all and yes the town BOE/Borough as owners will care for the field on our behalf. I understand this is of no interest to you but it doesn't mean we should not have and maintain fields. Just because I am not a senior citizen does not mean I raise hell every time money is spent at the senior center. Seniors are an important part of our community and should have a safe accommodating facility. Same goes for our population that will use the fields....4years old to adults. That's a pretty big group.

Fireworks, graduation - people with high heels, Disabled folks with canes. Animal excrement. Tree limbs and debris. Fire from cigarettes or fireworks. None of this is in the warranty for the turf fields. And given the setting, these are all likely to happen.
65% of the town does not have kids in the schools. Many of that 65% would probably appreciate outdoor recreation areas they could use - track, or swimming pool or tennis courts or a fitness course or even playgrounds for their young children. And, from my many phone calls about the bond - the majority of voters in this town didn't want the bond and think turf is a luxury that we can't afford. And we certainly don't want the Commissioners in a lameduck session going ahead and authorizing our tax monies. If the football crazy folks and the orthopedic surgeons want a turf field, then let's hire Energy in the Bank to put their solar panels in and pay for the turf field, like Irvington New Jersey did.

So you are saying the 65% say screw youth in this town? I don't think so. Don't forget that your figure of 35% with kids have households with more than one kid in many cases. All of your doomsday scenarios have been addressed thousands of times over and I'm sure we will be taught how to care for the fields and prevent damage using the experiences of the towns that did this before us. Not sure if as a Dr. you should be advocating smoking especially at the school but I think there is an ordinance against smoking there. Last time I checked we have pools nearby, tennis courts that my kids use, a track that I run on both at the high school and Crows Woods and playgrounds all over town. I have found them and used them many times. My kids have no complaints nor do I. Your "football crazy" comment makes me laugh because it just makes no sense. Do you not realize how many varied activities can be played on these fields? Girls sports, field hockey lacrosse soccer, boys football lacrosse, soccer, cheerleading, marching band, flag troop. Gym classes, adult rugby and soccer. I feel much better having my kid play on turf than crappy fields. The chance of him/her being hurt on turf is much less when compared to the condition of the high school, anniversary, centennial or crows. You just don't have the personal experience to know what you are talking about. Turf is not a luxury to my family. I don't expect you to agree but does my family not count because of how you feel?

J, did you even read the open space referendum question from 2011?

OPEN SPACE TAX REFERENDUM QUESTION
The Haddonfield Open Space Tax is up for renewal and will be a referendum question on the ballot November 8, 2011. Municipalities that collect an Open Space Tax are eligible for State Green Acres grants. Without such a tax, a municipality cannot receive these grants. The Open Space Tax can be used for:
1. The purchase of land for active recreation such as sports fields;
2. The purchase of land for passive recreation such as walking trails and parks;
3. The purchase of land for the conservation of open space;
4. The development of active and passive recreation Borough-owned land, whether newly purchased or previously owned;
5. Maintenance costs for any passive or active recreation areas owned by the Borough;
6. The purchase and maintenance of property for historic preservation purposes;
7. Maintenance of existing Borough owned historic properties.

Sue, where do the treads from used car tire wear go while you are driving? HINT into the road and into the drains and waterways. Let's ban Rubber tires!

BTW, can people in high heels walk on real grass fields? Wouldn't they sink?

"So you are saying the 65% say screw youth in this town?"

Now, disinterest in a turf field = screwing the youth of this town?

R. Not what I meant. Susan basically says in all her posts. "65% have no kids = Don't want turf fields". And that's not the case at all. I'm sure there is a healthy percentage that don't want to pay for turf fields. That is cut and dry and acceptable. But I know that not every person without kids feels that way.

Did I say that? Please reread. Not all families with children want the turf fields.

So? Not everyone under 65 wants a Senior Center, or subsidized taxes for Seniors. Heaven forbid if we invest in something that would benefit a large number of the citizens in the town even if it doesn't directly benefit us.

Are there more kids or people over 65 in town. Where are the stats of the 12,000 people who live in the boro?

Why does that matter?

hmmm - why are we discussing artifical turf fields again.
1 - they have been proven as possible environmental hazards
2 - they are generally reviled and harmful to players - ask the teams that used to play at the now extinct Vet Stadium. Artifical turf - causes more injuries, over heats and is generally considered a sub standard playing field
3 - if the town can't afford it , without a loan, then the town can't have it. Our properties (via property taxes) are not the town's checkbook.
4 - is installing astroturf on the high school field the best use of the entire town's dollars. if the high schools wants the field - raise the money on their own. Can't aford it... can't have it.
there are so many things we need to have done in this town - spending so much money on such a narrow interest does not make sense to me.

debbie - its not astroturf! Thanks for pointing out all the typical talking points of opposition tactics - make up stuff, throw excuse after excuse, be uninformed

1. Bring up environmental concerns (guess people who use Evesham, Cherry Hill, Cherokee, CamCath, Paul VI, Princeton U, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, new GIants Stadium turf fields are all going to die from exposure)
2. Bring up 30 year old technology. How come 2/3 of all NFL teams play on turf? Would multi million dollar a year athletes do this if unsafe. Ravens, Super Bowl champs play on turf.
3. How can't we afford it. Who determines affordability. With the approved OS moneys, it's already paid for free and clear. Can we afford higher costs for what you want?
4. What is the "best" use? Higher pensions, more staff, paving roads, free school lunches? See #3 - already a dedicated voter approved tax and $ in the bank.
5. Next time you want something. Raise the money on your own. Didn't the volunteers raise $600K. How much have you raised for your pet projects?

I think I would rather have all the sidewalks repaired so that people can walk through the entire borough without navigating uneven walkways. And have the town pay for the sidewalks rather than individual homeowners. I think that would be a great use of town dollars.

1. Not true. If anything they are environmentally net neutral.

2. Not true. Vet stadium's turf was first generation, and sucked. Now many teams use next generation turf, and many teams have removed their natural turf and replaced it with next generation turf.

3. So you're saying that all capital exopenditures need to be paid with current cash flows? Sewers, streets, buildings?

4. So if any entity in the town wants to have a capital improvement, they need to raise the money themselves? OK, the police can raise their own money for new cars and body armor, If you want your street repaved you need to raise the funds from your neigbors, if you want to have a mathematics class the students who take math must pay for that class. Seniors should hold a car wash if they want their property tax relief, or senior center.

My sidewalks are fine. Why should I have to pay for yours?

You want sources? Are you aware that the NJDEP, hardly an enemy of the environment, runs the state Green Acres program and they regularly pay for artificial turf fields?

Here is just one example.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/secaucus/index.ssf?/base/news-0/13034544099650.xml&coll=3

Yes Sue I know the company Astroturf is still around. However, the leading product out there is FieldTurf. Check out some of their recent news stories http://www.fieldturf.com/en/artificial-turf/artificial-turf-news

I think the context in which debbie d was referencing astroturf was relative to the old Vet and generically as in kleenex or xerox refers to a tissue or a copy. In any event, R&V will spec out the proper field materials and any bidder will need to meet the minimum standard they set. My concern with R&V is what experience do they have with the products on the market?

Comment to J and Scott. Agree with most of what J said. Scott - you and the others seem to think that opposing turf fields means opposing athletics. I have a broader vision of athletics than you apparently do. Field sports are only a small facet of fitness activities and they are rarely played by most adults throughout their lifetime. In contrast, sports like tennis, swimming, skiing, ice skating, weight lifting and fitness, karate, judo, track and basketball are lifetime physical activities. I haven't seen any of the turf posters talk about fixing the track or getting the tennis courts or the basketball court at Radnor replaced after they were allowed to deteriorate and then torn out. Athletics and fitness are very important for our kids and for our adults as well. I have yet to see a suggestion that fully incorporates this. By the way, one of my suggestions for Bancroft was a community indoor pool and fitness center. I would have voted for the Bancroft bond if that was going to be considered and I bet others would have as well. That could have been used by the whole community, not just by some of the 13 to 17 population.

My last comment for the day on Turf. I suggested at the Commissioners' meeting that they emulatethe town of Irvington, New Jersey and get Stadium Field funded by Energy in the Bank. Energy in the Bank, based in East Stroudsberg, placed solar panels on the school roof and paid the 2 million dollar costs for their multi-sport field track and field facility, six lane track and field facility and bleachers. The taxpayers paid nothing. Energy in the Bank then gets the electricity and the high school even gets a rebate on their electric costs. What's not to like about this? If it is good enough for Irvington, it's good enough for me here in Haddonfield. Why are we not doing this? I asked the Commissioners to speak with Energy in the Bank and to call Irvington officials to ask about how to do this. You would think that they would have considered this to save money AND acquire a new turf field (as well as maybe a track).

Follow up to Scott. I just got off the phone with Danielle Seldomridge the Director of Development for Energy in the Bank. She confirmed that the field in Irvington was not completed as scheduled for the fall of 2012. I agree that is a concern but could be looked into. On the other hand she states that they work with Landtek and are still interestted in doing business in New Jersey because the solar power market there is not saturated. I will be forwarding her information to Commissioner Borden and will bring it up at the B of E meeting.

I believe Energy in the Bank uses solar panels on roofs. This might be a way to pay to get the roof on the high school fixed where it needs fixing.
I am not saying this is absolutely the way to go but I am disturbed that neither the Commissioners nor the Board of Education appears to have considered this. I found this just by googling artificial turf. They could have done the same.

You should call the borough to see what committee you can join that would give you a chance to spearhead this. Did you suggest this to them early last year when this all came up? I just googled "artificial turf" and this doesn't come up. I guess you will have to act rather than complaining and being disturbed.

No, I was occupied with other issues and was not involved in town issues. I became involved in the fall when a friend called me to speak about the Bancroft bond issue. It is possible that it came up when I was googling turf field or some other permutation. I have emailed the contact information on the Director of Development to Ed Borden and when I find Jeff Kasko's email, I will send it to him as well.